Brain On!: Unleash Your Brain's Full Potential with Deb Smolensky | Ep. 059

Episode Transcript

Deb Smolensky: 0:00

If you don't have white space in your calendar, you don't have a chance. If you don't have white space in your patients, you don't have a chance and white space. If you do have it, checking your phone or social media is still burning your brain cells. You have to use it to go out in nature, find silence. You have to use your brakes wisely. But yes, space creates breathing room.

Cody McLain: 0:38

Welcome to another episode of Mindhack, where we delve into the world of productivity, mental health, and the science of human potential. Today, we journey through the neural pathways of success with none other than Deb Smolensky, acclaimed trailblazer in human performance and workplace wellbeing. In her groundbreaking new book, Brain On, Deb invites us into the powerhouse that is the human brain, our own personal supercomputer, that is. Curiously enough, it's missed a few updates since the dawn of humanity. This remarkable organ, designed with safety protocols, often locks us into a survival mode, spawning a myriad of challenges, from burnout to distraction. But fret not, because Brain On is more than a book. It's a life changing mental fitness bootcamp, coached by Deb herself. Considered a titan in the domain of human efficiency and health in the workplace, Deb reveals how we can improve our brain systems much like sculpting muscles at the gym. So listen in as we converse with Deb Smolensky about wielding the might of mental strategies and making every moment at work and, home an opportunity for growth and happiness, because your greatest asset lies just above your shoulders. Deb, thank you for joining us today.

Deb Smolensky: 2:00

Thank you, Cody. you should be my PR agent. That was an amazing introduction. It's so good to be here.

Cody McLain: 2:07

Thank you. And I'm honored to have you here. really loved the book that you wrote on how we can improve our brain health and everything from goals to strategies on how to work better and more efficient. And what got me curious is really, I'd love to know your journey that led you to write this book where did your passion for mental fitness come from the first place?

Deb Smolensky: 2:32

Yeah, those are great questions to start with. there's two things, Everything from my journey and my passion around mental well being dates back to my childhood traumas and dramas. where I learned how to overcome Stage fright as a little kid in fifth grade who used to faint during choir performances until my drama teacher taught me how to do muscle relaxation. you squeeze your muscles really tight and then relax. That's a mental fitness exercise. All the way through suffering from OCD and learning about neuroplasticity and how my thoughts could change so that I could be healthier and overcoming that. So I took all of those self help, self development practices and, went into the workplace in HR and human performance coaching and have been there ever since. what drove me to write the book was for the last 20 years, the number one question and challenge that I get asked as a practice leader in human performance is, Deb, why? Are my employees so stressed? Deb, why am I so stressed? And as a practice leader, my job is to learn as much as I can and put it into practice. So that's what I did with this book. I tried to help people not only understand, how their brains work. but also the practices and strategies they can bring forward at work. that really is my passion and my message. So again, I'm so excited to be here sharing that.

Cody McLain: 4:08

And what did you discover that leads to this, feeling of burnout and distress that we so often see amongst the workplace today?

Deb Smolensky: 4:17

there's external environmental factors, but I was writing to the individual and how our thoughts and emotions drive our perception of what's going on, which then drives the choices we have, which then drives the action and results. So burnout is really just the tip of the iceberg of really us all not being taught how our brain works. the survival mechanism is really all its job is, So The key is knowing how our brain works, which it's time for us all to learn, the strategies that help rewire because we aren't stuck with the computer system that's functioning halfway or on burnout mode. So how do we upgrade it? how do we manage our energy? brain power is a limited resource. So that's the trifecta, right? How does our brain work at work? How do we do mental exercises to become stronger and combat burnout? And how do we manage our energy every day so we can end up at the end of the day? actually better than we started, more productive, better connected. this is my end of the day and almost it's three o'clock And I've managed my energy. I've practiced my mental fitness because there was a lot going on today. and ultimately that's the key to success. that we all have access to.

Cody McLain: 5:44

Can you elaborate on what you mean by manage this energy?

Deb Smolensky: 5:48

Yeah, there's two parts of the book. The energy management is strictly the resource and the brain power. So I quote Daniel Pink, his book, When, is how do we wake up and use our brain power, which is finite. It's like our phone going down bar by bar every hour. How do we use it to Stay the course and become as productive and connected as possible. So energy management is all around that brain power. And how you know that you're running out of energy, because we don't have bars on our head, telling us, is we'll say things all day long like, Oh, I'm really exhausted. Or, Hey, I can't even think about this right now. I am just spent or just hold on. I need to take a break. those are our signals that we are running out of energy, brain power to fuel our thinking. So that's the definition I go by. And then in my book, I talk about how to manage that better, obviously.

Cody McLain: 6:53

I find myself having these periods where I have this intense level of work and focus, but then after that, the days following, I find it really hard to focus or even do any work whatsoever. And I'm not sure exactly what that is, but I'm sure a lot of people experience something similar to this. Is it burnout? stress? Is it anxiety? Do you have any thoughts on that?

Deb Smolensky: 7:17

Isolating your day and evaluating your day during the day is key because to your point, we often just run our brains ragged, hour by hour, no white space in the calendar at all, until maybe at 11 when we literally shut off and then we go back at it. We never manage that energy and over time, That energy is emotions. We can only take so much. So what you experience is increased energy, and then there is just no more. You're tapped out. Whether it's on a daily basis or over time, that is the definition of burnout. And burnout is specifically around work. So that is what we're seeing. People don't realize on an hour by hour basis, what are their thoughts? What are their emotions? How is their brain power and energy? we just keep pushing through like the work warrior, right? Until at the end of the day or days later, we're just, done. We have no energy left. That fight or flight or freeze, We've hit pure exhaustion.

Cody McLain: 8:29

what are some strategies that we can implement in order to have more energy to manage our day where we're not having these incredible highs and lows?

Deb Smolensky: 8:40

Well, that's a great question. And we're sticking with energy management. But it's actually a two part game, Because if your thoughts are worried, like you're in fight or flight mode, Oh, my manager just called. Oh, I have a project due. that increases the brain energy, You're worrying, worrying, worrying and pedaling through it. it's a two part answer. I write the book for micro moments, I write the book so you can pick this up and during the day, learn the skills to manage your day better. so it's a combination of right now building the habits to check in with yourself on what thoughts you're telling, what stories are you telling yourself. What is your emotional regulation? Because that's energy. for example, I always start my day not checking my phone, but that was a mental fitness exercise I had to learn. So intentionally starting my day off by saying something of gratitude or knowing what I'm looking forward to this day. Yes, today is I'm meeting with my friend, or yes, today is the day we have this big client presentation. We're going to knock it out of the park. Immediately, you can see the energy staying at that level of awakeness. And that's what you do in terms of managing your energy and your thoughts. Throughout the day, I call it the Workday Obstacle course. Most of us don't know that we're putting our brain through an obstacle course every day, 490 minutes, without a break, without any training, nothing. So no wonder we fall flat at the end of the day. So to your point, knowing what your schedule looks like that day and adjusting it to have recovery periods and Some connection and fun, some brain boosters, as I describe them, will help, but also managing your thoughts as the day goes on. So this was exciting for me, our podcast, I didn't book back to back meetings. I took 15 minutes to get excited about it, get in the right zone, and leave all that negative stress, which I've had all day, behind so I could show up in the right way. So it's daily management.

Cody McLain: 10:56

So in some ways, one strategy is to have a buffer before and after everything from meetings to even say focus sessions on deep work.

Deb Smolensky: 11:07

Yes. be very tactical, and The first strategy is knowing what your day looks like and intentionally building it and changing it or noting red flags that are going to zap you. We all have those meetings or those people on our calendar that might turn us into the red zone just because of how intense the conversation or that person is. So knowing what your obstacle course looks like before you start your day is one big strategy. And changing it to allow breaks, a little break, three minute breaks in between meetings is part of that strategy. The second thing is to note how well you slept, because if you didn't sleep well, you're starting at a lower energy and you really have to readjust that day to make it through in your best self, And then third, I would say, after knowing what your day looks like is putting in the beginning and the end habits. So you open your day the way you want to, meaning you're not going to just slide into work, or you're not going to digest breakfast as you digest the news these days. Those are all different bad kind of training habits. You're going to intentionally start your day. the right way, and you're going to intentionally end your day the right way by turning off your computer at the end of the day, not just sliding out of work, doing a transition, and also what's helpful is a gratitude practice. So not only adding little breaks in the day, but there's all kinds of strategies to really set up your workday obstacle course to be optimal. for your brain and for your personal family life or whoever else you are interacting with that day.

Cody McLain: 12:50

And I know in your book you have a decent amount where you talk about emotions and having awareness of our emotions. there's an app I've been using called Daylio, D A Y L I O. And it pings me throughout the day asking me, how am I feeling? there's been studies that show. If you have participants who ask themselves throughout the week or throughout the day, how am I feeling right now? That tends to lead to better emotional resilience an understanding of, how are you feeling? Thus, you're able to have a better mood throughout the day. are there any other strategies that you're aware of that seem to work for you?

Deb Smolensky: 13:25

Yes, that's a great point about emotional regulation throughout all of my interviews and studies one of the key comments that I always hold on to is personal mastery is the key to a happy, healthy life, meaning managing your regulations, your emotional regulations, understanding them. and then working with them is really what I call the fountain of youth. and so our brain is automatically set to be fight or flight, It's job is to keep us in survival mode. It's scanning all day long for threats. And we need to turn on our thinking brain. That's how I got to brain on. We actually need to turn on our thinking brain, our prefrontal cortex. So emotional regulation is how, you know, if your brain off in fight or flight mode, which will make you respond accordingly. Or, and, when you need to turn your brain on to be in flow mode and to calm, peace, those happy emotions. So emotions, there's no good or bad, it's just information to tell yourself. So, strategies for me, actually do involve another app. I use, What Am I Feeling? by Dr. Mark Brackett out of the Yale Center. Because no matter what you're going through, your brain is going to be your enemy in terms of keeping you safe and protected. It's going to blow things out of proportion, And the key to emotional regulations is to name the emotion you're experiencing. Why? This is because... Just like if you were in a crowded concert or mall and somebody said, Hey, and they were talking to you, you wouldn't turn around, you wouldn't acknowledge them, right? But if they said, hey, you, you might have a chance of saying me, but if they said, hey, Cody, oh, that resonates, you know exactly who I'm talking to, and what I'm talking about. That's the same with our emotions. If we don't name it correctly, and there's 2600 different emotions, according to Dr. Brackett and others, and it resides in our body as this floating unresolved stress response. so the app I use really makes me pick exactly what I'm feeling by the definition. So yesterday I was literally deciding, I'm going through a lot of different things right now. I had low energy. and unpleasantness in my body. So I went to that quadrant in this app, and I was trying to decide between the difference of being miserable, being exhausted, feeling hopeless, and something else. each description allowed me to drill in really specifically until I actually felt a release by naming it to tame it. And then it gives me Three quick steps or my mental fitness exercises that I know to practice pulls me back out and puts me back and brain on state.

Cody McLain: 16:33

a workaholic, and I know that there's a lot of workaholics out there. And sometimes I find myself almost trying to force myself to work. Because I feel like I need to be working. If I'm feeling burnt out, it's even more difficult to do that. And sometimes I have to take a step back and be like, okay. I'm not going to work right now. I'm going to do something else, and I find that ends up recharging my battery. Do you have any advice or suggestions on how to increase this awareness? but also how to have the willingness to walk away from, something, even when you really, really want it, but your brain's just not on to help support you to do that.

Deb Smolensky: 17:12

one mental fitness exercise, if anybody is listening that can take away from this is this. Asking yourself and building a habit. These are all skills. We aren't born to be happy, productive. We aren't wired to do any of that. We are wired just to survive. So at five o'clock, if you were to do a performance review with your brain, even if you're exhausted, wiped out, had the worst day ever, your brain would say, I deserve a raise because you're still breathing. Like that's the bar for our brain. Everything else is a skill. So the best skill you can start with is awareness of how you are feeling and the thoughts you are thinking. if it was just that easy, I wouldn't even wrote a book. You have to actually ask yourself. So I say, pick three times a day that are always consistent. Maybe it's breakfast, lunch, and before you sign off at work. ask yourself, literally pause and check in saying, Oh, where am I feeling tension? Or what am I feeling right now? And most likely you're in fight or flight response and just don't know it. And that will be the release. and the awareness and you'll start to practice that over and over. Or what thoughts am I having? Oh, I don't want to work right now. I don't want to work. And then you're trying to think, you know, will yourself to work. You're in flight mode or freeze mode. That's procrastination. This awareness skill, this mental fitness exercise of just incorporating that three times a day. Every day, which I did for two years, is a life changer because that will identify how often you're in this fight or flight mode. And then how you can become brain on by breathing, et cetera, which we can talk about later. Your second question is on the burnout once you're finally aware, Once you're like, I can't do this anymore. Most of us are workaholics. We've trained our brain that that sentence isn't right. That sentence isn't acceptable. I must do this according to what I've done in the past. And it's rewiring yourself to give yourself grace, like you've said, recovery, or a break. It's another skill or habit that we have to rewire our brain to say the only way I am going to be better or productive or happy is if I take a break. It's retraining, it's rewiring. We have programmed ourselves the whole wrong way because we were never told. We just went from college or whatever straight to work,

Cody McLain: 19:47

And of course, in America, we just have this culture that idolizes being a workaholic. if addicted to drugs, that's frowned upon, but if you're addicted to work, that's okay. And that's been leading to just an increase in the amount of depression and anxiety. Because people haven't been taught these strategies that you're talking about to have self awareness to know when are you pushing yourself too far and the idea that productivity doesn't just have to be associated with work. If you're hanging out with friends, that can be productive as well. you're living the life that you're working towards. there's that quote that you should work to live, not live to work.

Deb Smolensky: 20:26

You nailed it. And not only that, but even with the relationships, that's a brain booster. So I talk about 10 energy boosters. When I was writing the book, that was the hardest thing I've done in a long, long time. I would get so exhausted, I couldn't look at the manuscript for a couple days. And I had to practice saying, that is okay, because if I start to do something, it won't be my best, the neuroplasticity and the neuro wiring in our brain is, be a workaholic, check our phone, never turn off. Like we've Done it the whole wrong way and now it's time for us to take back the most important thing in our life in terms of how we interact and live, which is our brain.

Cody McLain: 21:12

and so we've covered how to, in some ways, how to have awareness. Can you talk about more specific strategies on How we can increase our level of self awareness because so often we end up in this flustered state or it's just like how we all have these interactions where we get angry in the moment We do something that we later regret and even a few minutes after we yell at somebody or we just use a harsh or a negative tone. within few minutes, we're apologetic and we're asking ourselves, wait, why did I do that? How did that happen? Do you have any insight into that?

Deb Smolensky: 21:47

Yeah, first is realizing that what you explained is normal. it was shocking to me to understand that the default system, the computer program that we are running, is the negative biased, is the survival system, the limbic system. So, of course, when we're tired We're rushed. We're not thinking. We haven't checked in with ourselves. The first response within a second is going to be a negative one, or one that is not our best self. And that is normal. And that's why it sounds so silly, but starting with awareness will improve your life tremendously. But it's so hard. So that's why, again, I'll go back to Putting in three times a day, just checking in with yourself. Like, am I tight? Am I in fight or flight mode? Is my body tight? What thoughts am I saying? What stories? then finding your tells like in poker, right? If you watch the professionals in a poker tournament, they have glasses on a hat. You can't tell their tells because the tells are automatic. we all have our tells when we are angry. or fight, or we're tired, flight, or procrastinating, freeze, so asking yourself or tracking what are my tells for fight, flight, and freeze are extremely important. I found that I slightly clenched my jaw when I Look at emails no matter what like I go through already ready to fight through those emails so then my responses won't be great I have to train myself not to click send Until I've taken a breath and at least try to read through it before sending it off and getting to the next one So your tells are another strategy And being aware of those. when I'm exhausted on a daily basis, right? I try to manage my burnout on a daily basis. I immediately, without thinking, go downstairs walk outside or I take a 20 minute nap or meditation. five minute, whatever you need. But those tells would be another strategy that is really, really helpful to build your awareness of how your brain is wired.

Cody McLain: 24:05

part of awareness is of course, finding a certain level of happiness. I think whenever we're working on a consistent basis, there is a tendency to be busy and to work all day. But then we might not feel like we actually accomplished anything and we might not actually feel happy with the work that we accomplished. And in your book you talk about how goals should be to allow you to feel happier at the end of every single day. Do you have any strategies on how we can better achieve this?

Deb Smolensky: 24:38

again, this book is around the workplace, right? And our goals, what I found over and over drive us to be those workaholics. If that achievement is all we're looking at. So I talk about smart turtles. Adding awareness of your well being to those goals so that if you want to accomplish something, that's great, but did you accomplish it without pounding a Red Bull not sleeping all night? So building in strategies for your well being and monitoring that is how I approach goals. so it's, Today I need to do like a PowerPoint, but I wanted to do it not feeling exhausted because it takes a lot of thinking power. So I connect with a friend for a five minute break after I did 10 slides and that was so refreshing. Add a boost of energy to your workday, so it's really important to do that.

Cody McLain: 25:33

I think when it comes to goals, it's important to have things that allow us to feel at least that we can get some kind of award for having those goals. I suppose it's about not just working all day, but also working on the right things, the things that we can find joy from. And often we're just working on the wrong things. You mentioned email and how you almost freeze up and you get tense with that. so certainly if you did email all day, that would probably feel like a pretty miserable day, I imagine. So how do we find the things that are involved in our work that we can find happiness or joy or that we can use as a reward for achieving those more difficult things?

Deb Smolensky: 26:13

Yeah happiness and joy. are great. Sometimes during these days, I go for just calm, right? What we're going for is peace and calm and may it be a good, positive emotion, And it really starts with looking at the obstacle course you're going to tackle for your brain that day. And if you have no white space and back to back meetings, I can guarantee there's no happiness or joy coming unless randomly somebody stops by and says, thank you so much for doing something, which rarely happens, right? So the first thing is looking at that calendar. And putting joy or putting happiness in. Again, happiness is a skill. So if you want to mentally be strong and happy, you have to put that in and find something purposely to practice to make you happy. I'm going to call somebody. I'm going to do something. And the more you put happiness in, build that muscle, the more your brain is going to say, Hey, what about happiness tomorrow? you have to plan it into the calendar. pick one thing at the beginning of the day that is really the most meaningful, just one thing that you want to get done and will consider success for the day. Make sure you build that in and don't go to the automatic subconscious pilot of checking your phone every time it dings, checking emails every time it comes. Be very strategic with your time and priorities based on the brain power. Focus on that priority when you have the most brain power because the rest can be handled, as the brain power depletes. So. For me, I had to actually give up exercising to focus on writing my book from 8 to 1045. At 1045, I took a break. 11 o'clock, I did email because I always want to check twice a day. At 12 o'clock, I stopped the email. I took another break and I went outside because that was my joy or I put on my favorite song and just kind of chilled out. It's just like, we are corporate athletes here. We have to train for every work day, we have to be strategic, and we have to rewire our brain completely for how we need to work.

Cody McLain: 28:34

And as you state in your book, our brains and our physiology. Are pretty much exactly the same as they were when we were in the caveman era. And now today we have this information overwhelm. We have so many things going on. We feel like we need to stay informed and it's just hard to stay on top of anything that the moment you get to inbox zero one day, you might feel great for that day, but then the next day there was a hundred new emails. And it's always hard because you feel like you have to stay on top of things and you're always behind and that adds more stress. how does this affect our brain and do you have any strategies or ideas on how we can adapt or change?

Deb Smolensky: 29:15

So again, awareness of how you approach that. You listen to literally what you are telling yourself. So you just said, Oh, I feel like I need to work more, we're telling ourselves over and over the wrong things. We've rewired ourself to just push through. Come on. Why am I feeling like this? we have to say, Oh, I'm not at my best right now. What can I do to refuel? Oh, I'm not at my best. Do I really need to answer those emails? I used to just do emails all the time and I am addicted to my phone and I work on that every day. I finally got to a place where I'm comfortable going from checking emails all the time to checking them twice a day, right? An hour a day. and you know what? Nobody ever said to me, why didn't you answer my email? Like I'm putting pressure on, it's my projection. It's my brain telling me I'm going to get in trouble or I'm not doing a good job. My thoughts, it's a negative protective mechanism. So we just have to challenge our thinking. That is it. And then be comfortable with doing something new, rewiring our brain. So emails, right? The next time you hear a ding, just notice where that little leaning forward is, because I can guarantee it's in the pit of your stomach or in your impulse hand and you just don't realize it. And then pause and say, do I consciously choose to answer that? Do I absolutely need to answer that email right now? Or can I redirect my focus? what I was doing because it's important. Practicing that alone, that skill of pausing, the purposeful pause, is the second game changer that will improve your life because then you're making a conscious choice.

Cody McLain: 31:12

And then you also mentioned, Dr. Levitin. In your book, who also talks about the information overwhelm that we presently experience today. there are over 11 million pieces information every second that our unconscious takes in. And then we have to sort that out in our conscious mind. he also emphasizes that we are only consciously aware of, I'm not sure how he got this statistic, of 0. 0000001 percent of the information in our world. And this leads to hundreds of internal and unconscious emotional reactions, assumptions, biases, attitudes, judgments, that all affect our mood throughout the entire day. do you have any inkling what are some of these types biases or these internal unconscious reactions that constantly impact our mood in a negative way?

Deb Smolensky: 32:04

that's a great point to highlight because that is our brain's default system, how I like to think of it as. Our brain is always, always running the virus scan that our computers run, Looking for threats. And we know you can't do a darn thing on your computer when the virus scan program is running. You are strictly like frustrated and can't move, right? That is normal setting for our brain. Number one, it's normal. So being aware that it's normal is really... The key there. and I got so excited with that 0. 001 because it's just amazing to me how we don't know that. But let's just take a typical day. Every piece of data is going to go through a threat or reward system. 80 percent is going to be threat. So your body is going to . Fire the stress cortisol all day long. So if you start your day by checking your phone and you don't say, I always say slip into work at 6 a. m. by checking your phone and seeing a text and then you're spiraling and responding and then you're looking for things. Like you immediately, checking your phone initiates the stress response. Just checking it. We think it's going to be a reward because maybe 10 years ago we got some good news in an email. I don't know, but they've programmed our brain. So checking email, hit to our cortisol. Oh, then I'm going to turn on the news. Well, our brain doesn't know the difference between us being in the news story and us watching it. It thinks it's our reality. Oh, so I'm gonna get hit all day long with the stress response because that's what I'm digesting in the news. And then, oh, I'm late. I gotta run out. Stress response. Darn, there's a commute. I'm late. I'm in traffic. why did he cut me off? all day long, just to get to work, we're lucky if we have brain power. Or even if I walk up the stairs and I forgot to let my dog out or something, If we're working remote, before I even turn on my computer to work, I might have already depleted all my energy and been in a negative frame of mind. This goes on all day long. I have a plan. Oh, I get a call from my manager. Can you do this? Great. That's the default. That's the norm. We're always going to be in fight or flight response unless we slow down and question what am I feeling with this immediate thing and practice that awareness. Every step of the way.

Cody McLain: 34:29

And so one of the strategy is to to have that self awareness, because if we can have the awareness of how we're feeling, then we can better understand things that we're doing that are hindering our performance and causing us to feel so frustrated and upset. And believe there is this. common fallacy called the Fundamental Attribution Error. And I love to bring this example where if you're in the car and somebody cuts you off, we have this instinct to be upset and to yell at them and curse them and think that they're doing this on purpose. But if we were in that car and we just happened to cut something off, we tell ourselves a different story like, Oh, I didn't have any room. I didn't mean to, and you feel sorry. And so we tend to attribute. Other people to these negative things, we assume these negative things, whereas we give ourselves some kind of credit on this idea. do you have any insight on that or any other fallacies that you can immediately think of?

Deb Smolensky: 35:25

Well, Dr. David Rock, who is the CEO of the Neural Leadership Institute says there's five big things that. Turn your brain off or, where you would give yourself a break, but it triggers your fight or flight. That's like, a status, so why did they get a raise? Or making an assumption that they're paid more than I pay transparency. And then saying, well, why am I lower on the pecking order? Or that everybody else has more flexibility in their work day or not enough as much work. And I'm stuck here. Nobody knows what I'm doing. I look at it as we kind of view ourselves as more of the victim What I've practiced is saying. Oh, that person, who cut me off might have like an emergency. I know when I have an emergency, I just need to get somewhere. So I put compassion in those examples, I've been practicing, from understanding other people's, situations or how I react.

Cody McLain: 36:25

I think there's a tendency to see an action and this could be in the workplace. It happens all the time, right? It can even be over a slack message where somebody says something and there's no tone. There's no context So you assume that. they're meaning it in some negative way, and I've come to have enough interactions, at least myself, where I feel like, wait, do they mean to say it in this way? And sometimes the best thing is to either pick up the phone, or if I'm not able to speak to them, is that I assume the opposite. I give them the benefit of the doubt. And I will tell you, it's taken me well past a decade to get to that point where I can give somebody the benefit of the doubt.

Deb Smolensky: 37:06

Yeah. You're mentally strong. I applaud you. I mean, like I said, you've really spent time becoming mentally strong with all of these great sessions. And I agree. it's a skill. It's just a skill and it's normal to respond that way. So we are going to respond with a fight, flight, response all day long. Knowing that and putting in just an awareness practice, or a compassion practice, or whatever practice it is, that takes such strength. So when I wanted to write this book, it was hard to say, it's just an awareness thing. Like I have come up with 212 pages of content, it's so simple. It's just we were never taught. The concepts are simple. The practice is so hard because our brains are thousands of years old, and we've rewired them to not know this or practice it at all.

Cody McLain: 38:05

the most important is to have that awareness. Are there any other either key strategies or techniques that build on top of that to help give us that level of emotional control and to help lead us where we can have more consistent days where we can be happy with ourselves, with others and the work that we accomplish?

Deb Smolensky: 38:26

I just say if you can take away one skill, it's asking yourself What am I feeling now or what am I thinking and just realizing you're in fight or flight if that isn't necessarily helpful going to your tells and being aware of when you're initiating your tells and then the third thing If you can do it before talking, typing, or clicking send, is take three breaths. I call it the purposeful pause. these are micro habits because That's how our workday works. make sure you're showing up as your best self at every point and discussion, because you could get triggered over and over. Daniel Goleman, the emotional intelligence guru and godfather, I got to talk to him About email to your point or slack and I said, how do you insert emotional intelligence into an email exchange? And he brilliantly said I had no idea but my wife suggested That you're emotionally intelligent if that email response strengthens your relationship with that person versus degrades it. so taking time to make sure, even the quickest response, I say, am I strengthening my relationship with my words? Or my text or my email or is this going to be viewed as degrading because there's no neutral in life,

Cody McLain: 39:53

I've certainly had problems being able to communicate in a way that doesn't seem degrading on the end of, say, my, employee. And one recent advancement that I've been able to take advantage of is ChatGPT and other AI platforms, in that I'll write my message and then I just know it has this kind of hostile intent. And so I'll run it through ChatGPT and ask it to make it nicer or to make it, in a more positive way. And then I'm able to send that and that's led to much better outcomes and much better responses when I myself, I'm feeling angry at that person and I send them this positive message and then they almost respond right away and they feel actually a sense of gratitude towards me and I'm just like, wow, I love this.

Deb Smolensky: 40:39

right? So let's just walk through that because everything you've said and you do is in a great test case, You noticed your tell Sometimes and when you're, angry you know to run that language through a tool. Or you know to get brain on again because you're brain off. It just helps you formulate it better. And so then you've strengthened your relationship by the time you say send. And then you get the gratitude back, which is a reward, and that starts to build and rewire the reward system to do it more and more, which became a habit, hopefully.

Cody McLain: 41:16

just having the awareness to check in with yourself. I interviewed a previous psychologist I remember we were talking a little bit about this and the ability to label. How you're feeling, it tends to help your prefrontal cortex to turn on again, So that you're able to in some ways give recognition to this underlying subconscious emotion that you're feeling. Because if you don't give that thing that recognition, then it's just going to override and you're going to do something that you're probably going to regret. But when you label it, you're, giving it the recognition and then you're becoming aware of that feeling. And then you're able to decide consciously, Okay, what's the thing I should do next?

Deb Smolensky: 41:58

Yes, that was name it to tame it, right? That's what I write in the book. that's my example of saying in the mall, Hey, versus Hey, Cody, saying, Hey, Cody, Hey, I'm feeling miserable, not hopeless. Oh, miserable. Then let's practice that and that literally brings your brain back on your prefrontal cortex, your wise brain, whatever you want to call it. you might not be that as calm, but you're clear. You're focused. You're your best self because you're not in that fear state in that protective state or whatever state that is.

Cody McLain: 42:30

in your book, there's also focus on creating a thriving workplace, and I know a lot of companies don't really consider the mental health components of their workplace. I know at least during COVID, there were a lot of companies that would give, a gym credit or a credit to Headspace, and that's the most that they would really do, because they really want the employees, to show up and to do the work, and they don't always consider that mental fitness component. I'm wondering what advice do you have for organizations or leaders on how they can improve mental health and fitness of their organization as a whole?

Deb Smolensky: 43:05

Yeah. my job is working with HR. So the last three sections of the book was really meant to build a framework. It takes. strategy, it takes belief, but most of all, it takes practice and self awareness of themselves and buy in. So my first step in talking to HR is practice this yourself. Figure out your own tells, figure out how your brain is aware, because you'll understand the importance and the power of that, right? So first step is it starts with you, transform yourself, know that. And then, a simple next step for somebody that wants to really understand the collective brain is to then know the tells of the organization, You can see much more toxicity or difficult conversations or stress. You can feel that at certain times, and you can also feel burnout in the organizational level. So knowing those tells at an organization then helps HR, one, not do new initiatives when people are burned out, and it helps add support when they do need in the red zone or The fight or flight zone, so knowing the tells and then strategizing your rollout of your benefits or your communication or your training or requirements is really, really key. And then third is really helping start with your leaders, Our leaders have to know this. We quit bosses, not jobs. And if your leader isn't brain on, but you as the employee are practicing that, you're still going to get triggered because that's normal. And so you're swimming upstream and, you know that, but you need leadership to lead the way. So they are the true coaches, mental fitness trainers of the workplace.

Cody McLain: 45:01

Now, as somebody who's had an organization, I had a company that actually employed a thousand people, and it was very difficult to build and scale and keep the entire company functioning as you might imagine. And one of the things that we tried to implement certain health strategies, like we, give them access to headspace. And then we found that the usage of that was 5 percent at the most. And even though meditation has been something I consistently practice myself to convince employees that they should either meditate. Or have a gratitude exercise or that they should eat healthier. I know we even had sessions. We even had people come in to talk about diet and how to eat a healthier and live a healthier lifestyle. But in some ways it's like you're trying to shove this ideology into people's face when perhaps they don't care about eating healthier. Perhaps they think meditation is woo woo. how much have you run into this resistance where if you're working with an organization that's trying to improve organizational health, how much resistance do you find yourself coming across getting the employees to actually follow any of these practices?

Deb Smolensky: 46:08

so what you've just labeled as well being, right? How do you get people to be well at work? I have bruises up and down trying to help HR do it. it's hard because we're humans, right? And not one size fits all. So Gallup even says 23%, 28 percent are engaged and thriving at work. It's a very hard challenge in well being. There are strategies you can do, but it needs to be comprehensive and tailored just to that organization. What I want to say for mental well being is a new concept. We are at the very beginning. That's why I wrote the book. Nobody understands that we went from the industrial age, knowing that physical labor gets the widgets, to our brain creating the widgets, the decisions and communication, and not knowing that we're always on fear brain, or brain off mode. This is my message, which I'm so grateful I can share, and this is just the beginning, and it's different than mental health. So, mental health is clinical. Anxiety, depression, PTSD, SUD, all of those, and it's very necessary, but employers just started realizing that through COVID. this is such an early conversation, but what I can say is anybody that learns how their brain works, From new hire to retire, and these habits are built into the work experience every day, meaning meetings start with one minute of arrival practice. We give each person a mindful listening time to speak and pausing projects. We don't send emails after five o'clock. these micro moments that are built in and we train our brain how to become a corporate athlete is where we need to start and we are just starting.

Cody McLain: 47:59

Are there any particular success stories when you worked with an organization or an individual that, really stand out

Deb Smolensky: 48:06

there are some organizations, for example a physician's office, knew that after COVID, the mental health was one thing, they have the therapy and RX, but their, people were just burned out frontline. they asked the question, what can we do? They first had to learn that mental health by having a therapy, like ginger, like all those. Companies helps with therapy, but that's only 20 to 30 percent of a company at a given time dealing with that. 100 percent of us, our brains are extremely exhausted, trauma filled from COVID and so they needed to understand and buy into mental health is different. Mental well being or mental fitness and both are necessary. And then the next step is, how do we get to doctors in a digestible way? And for them, it was a certain technology that they could plug in or on their phone before they started their day. And after three patients, like, every hour, there was a minute exercise. another hospital uses, code lavender. When a nurse just lost a patient or a doctor just lost a patient and they need to regroup, another team comes in. So, we brought in all of these different ways to... Help these doctors, nurses, and practitioners get through and strengthen their brain so that they are aware of how much stress they are holding in, how to release that, as well as how to manage their energy through the day.

Cody McLain: 49:41

So in some ways, it's introducing those buffers, as you say, between stressful events so that we have time to recuperate and not have to just go from one thing to another thing that leads to that inevitable burnout.

Deb Smolensky: 49:55

Yeah. If you don't have white space in your calendar, you don't have a chance. If you don't have white space in your patients, you don't have a chance and white space. If you do have it, checking your phone or social media is still burning your brain cells. You have to use it to go out in nature, find silence. You have to use your brakes wisely. But yes, space creates breathing room.

Cody McLain: 50:18

And now, as we begin to wrap up, any ideas on emerging trends or new techniques in the workplace, anything that you're excited about, whether it's about psychology or strategies that you think will be implemented in greater capacity in the future.

Deb Smolensky: 50:34

Oh, thank you. I love talking about the future. I'm still at the systemic viewpoint of how are we going to change organizations so that we upskill our brains. I see it just from my perspective, moving from it's just a benefit, like a calm or a headspace into it's. integrated into learning and development and we start building the skills that are needed as these are professional job skills. so I'm looking at all these different training apps and ways to incorporate that into the L& D space versus just the benefit space. So that's really exciting to me. And in the mental well being, I'm always looking for new things. I like to look at sports performance and there is different ways that they train like professional athletes to focus more, Or there's a new digital therapeutics coming out, which means you don't have to take a pill to rewire for ADHD using VR. And it's been approved by the FDA. Like we, don't understand how our brains even work. And we're just always reiterating and improving. So I appreciate that. I think it's changing every day and it's going to only help us become more mentally strong. But at the end of the day, you don't even need all of that. You just need to say, how am I wired? What am I thinking? What am I feeling? And what makes me come brain on? Whether it's nature, whether it's a friend. we can do this even without technology, but we have to start doing

Cody McLain: 52:12

Yeah, and I think with the emergence of that recent live flat movement out of China, I think it's began to even spread into the U. S. and for the longest time we've had corporations just absolutely only care about the bottom line and not so much care about the employees. And I think we're starting to see some bounce back from that, where organizations are having a tough time recruiting qualified people because they realize they don't want to spend their, entire life working for the man. They want to have a life outside of work. And I think corporations, organizations across the board are going to have to really consider what you describe as this workplace mental fitness incorporate that as part of the work itself.

Deb Smolensky: 52:56

I think that's the only way, actually. Otherwise, the employee's thoughts are going to be disconnected from the employer. The employer's in fight or flight. They'll make you come back to work or do something or the leader, the employee won't understand. we all have to upgrade. emotionally regulate and also understand how to interact in a healthier way to move forward together and create workplaces that are regenerative, not depletive anymore.

Cody McLain: 53:24

And for those who are looking for advice on where to go, are there any resources that people can look at, whether they're an employee looking to have their manager consider this in the workplace, or whether they're just somebody themselves that would like to learn additional information about you or this idea in general?

Deb Smolensky: 53:44

I appreciate that. for me, you can link me in at Debbie Smolenski or visit my website, Deb at Deb Smolenski dot com. I always recommend. free resources first. So I love Insight Timer as a way just to kind of decompress and meditate. Managing your emotions is huge. and so there's so many free. resources. but I'm happy to help anybody that is wanting to dive deeper, especially if you're in an organization and how to bring that forward.

Cody McLain: 54:15

for everybody listening, we'll be sure to link all of Deb's information, her website, and her book in the show notes. And with that said, this has been an absolute lovely conversation, Deb. I've really enjoyed talking about this topic with you. And again, if you're listening, please check out her book, Brain On. thank you for being here with us, Deb.

Deb Smolensky: 54:35

And thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun and again, thank you.