#092 - Dr. Neil Paulvin - Biohacking Hype vs. Truth

Episode Transcript

Dr. Neil Paulvin: [00:00:00] There's definitely like a Core four that we always talk about the pillars. There's different names for kind of the same stuff. It's definitely sleep, and it's the basics of sleep. Initially, it's making sure that you're getting going, trying to go to bed and wake up the same time every day, making sure you're getting the appropriate amount of sleep, seven to nine hours if you're an athlete, maybe 10 to 12, depending on what your sport is.

Cody: Mind Hack is a podcast about the psychology of performance, behavior change, and self-op optimization. Each episode explores how to think better, work smarter, and live more intentionally through conversations with top thinkers, entrepreneurs, and scientists.

Welcome to The Mind Hack podcast. I'm your host Cody McLain, and today I'm thrilled to be joined by Dr. Neil Paulvin, a physician renowned for his work in optimizing human performance and longevity. Dr. Paulvin specializes in working with high achievers, ranging from CEOs [00:01:00] of Fortune 500 companies to professional athletes helping them to achieve peak physical and mental performance.

In this conversation, we'll explore the key foundations, any Winter master first and their health journey. We'll delve into intermediate optimization methods like cold exposure and fasting, and also we'll discuss advanced tactics including supplement strategies, peptide therapy, and cognitive enhancing nootropics.

As always, resources and studies mentioned in this episode will be available at the show notes at mindhack.com Dr. Paulvin, welcome to the show.

Dr. Neil Paulvin: Thanks. Excited to be on, glad to answer those questions and some a lot of good information out there.

Cody: So you work closely with CEOs and top athletes, and I'm curious, when someone's first starting their health journey, what fundamentals should they [00:02:00] absolutely master first before even thinking about advanced biohacking?

Dr. Neil Paulvin: Yeah, there's definitely like a core four that we always talk about the pillars of different names for kind of the same stuff. It's definitely sleep and it's the basics of sleep. Initially, it's making sure that you're getting the same going, trying to go to bed and wake up at the same time every day, making sure you're getting the appropriate amount of sleep, seven to nine hours if you're an athlete, maybe 10 to 12 depending on what your sport is.

Um, we're definitely talking about exercise, ma, make sure you're the appropriate amount of exercise, both cardio and weight training and, and optimizing that diet, which is different for everybody. Um, what's good for me is not good for somebody else. Then also just basic overall lifestyle in terms of stress reduction, connection with people, positivity, all those things we know now do factor in mindset and connection are a big part of your overall health, and that affects stress and inflammation and brain health and just kind of as a funnels all the way down.[00:03:00]

Cody: So I believe you mentioned the, the four pillars that I, I believe was from Dr. Peter Tia, which is the, the, the sleep, nutrition, exercise, and emotional health. So I'm, I'm curious from your experience, is there any, any one of these pillars that people consistently underestimate or overlook?

Dr. Neil Paulvin: Um, not overlooked.

I think sleep is sometimes now because of the stuff that's out there, we get into minutia ville where people, I mean, I've encountered people, which is great. They're like, oh, I'm using the Uber, or my whoop ring and my deep sleep is 4% off. Or, um. I'm, they're like trying to, their score is not high enough.

They can't put on social media. There's other, it's, again, it's the fact that they're, you need to do the big stuff first and then work on those, the smaller things. And again, it also understanding that it's not just about what you're doing at night, having the, the weighted blanket or the, the, the [00:04:00] blackout shade is also when you get up in the morning, when you're, by exposing your body to sunlight, having the appropriate lights in your home at night where it's not, maybe you have red lights or orange light bulbs.

Um, it's, it's the kind of the big picture that they're missing. It's, they know what's there. It's just sometimes I think people now, because of like social media and podcasts and the tech that, the wearables that people have, they kind of will worry about the small things that you easier may be able to fix by just working on the bigger picture stuff first.

Cody: Right. And, and I think there, there was a study from the, the. A journal of Experimental Psychology, the show, just adding one or two more hours of sleep can boost cognitive performance by like nearly 20%. So, uh, so I think there's so much that we tend to focus on, whether it's like neutropics or maybe it's like red light or just these little small biohacks, but at the basis you need to have your foundation set first because that's gonna offer the biggest wins to helping you get into that state that you want to be in.[00:05:00]

Dr. Neil Paulvin: Yeah. It is optimizing for you. I mean, we know that some people that actually will have decreased performance and increased inflammation and increased insulin resistance if they go beyond nine hours, is other people. I was at an event this week where this per two people need 10 and their data backs it up where they need 10, 11 hours.

It's very individual. It's, it's combining. And the whole thing that we mentioned in your intro is it's take, it's not one thing. It's taking what your sleep score, how you feel, combining what your biomarker testing is and how you just feel and on your own sensation and taking all that information. And devising a program for yourself.

Um, but again, just also starting with the basics. So it's, it's everybody wishes it was a cooking cut that I could do the thing that you're doing and the same thing that Peter Rilla is doing. It's unfortunately, or fortunately, it doesn't work that way. Um, so it's kind of like, it's, but the fun game to play and for, and create the paces are being more proactive now.

Cody: And so when you have a client come to your office [00:06:00] and they, they either want to be more productive or focused or they're an athlete trying to, to step up their game, what questions do you ask? Like, where do you start and helping them on starting their journey towards, like optimizing themselves? Um,

Dr. Neil Paulvin: I, it's usually three or four questions after you've been doing this for so long.

It's a, what are your top two or three goals because you, no matter what, between the optimization, science and just basic. Self-improvement. I mean, the James Clear stuff and all the, you can't change seven things at one time. It's just, it's not possible. And especially people who are entrepreneurs and they don't have the time where the energy does not feed and you're just gonna have, nothing's gonna happen.

So trying to figure out what those one or two or three goals are and then trying to, and then trying to work on those as much as you can. Number two is gonna be, um, how hard do you, how much time and how much effort do you wanna put into this? I have people who say, look, I have three months before A, [00:07:00] B, or C where I could, I want to be the best I could be for whatever reason.

Or they may say, look, I just want the very simplest thing that I can do because I have no time to deal with this. So understanding what their schedule is and what their commitment is, is always very helpful. 'cause I'm not gonna have somebody do attend peptides with this and that if they have five minutes a day, it's, it's, you gotta put A and B together.

And the last piece is going to be is. Just to get an under, um, a basic understanding of what, where they are at that point. Again, I have people come in and they're on their life. All their pillars are, are perfect, their sleep is perfect, their workout is perfect. They're, they're supplementing the right way and we need to go more detailed.

And there's people who are gonna be very proactive and very self-aware. I have other people who don't want to do the basic stuff. I just wanna take 17 supplements and help buy in a hyperbaric unit and try to just fix things kind of that way. So once you kind of know what their goals are and what their kind of, their mindset and their, and the way they work is, it [00:08:00] makes it a lot easier.

And you waste a lot less time because, I mean, I, again, everybody's different. There's people who are going to do, do a deep dive. Other people just kind of need the basics. So it is, that's always helpful.

Cody: And so say somebody has all the basics down, then you're going from the basic strategies to kind of more the intermediate say like, uh, cold, like ice baths, as saunas, intermittent fasting.

Uh, I'm wondering what kinds of of these kind of intermediate strategies do you find to be the most helpful

Dr. Neil Paulvin: in general? Um, let, we'll take a lot of this. We'll take costs outta the equation for a second. Just makes it a lot simpler. Um, so the first thing I'm doing on everybody is gonna be biomarker testing because it's obviously knowing, and this is not just the basic you're gonna get from your family doc or even beyond what function health or some of these other online lab companies are offering at this point.

Because once we know. That the information where the holes and the, and the good things [00:09:00] are, it makes it a lot easier to do things. And then that's the easiest way to fix things. Um, that's number one. Um, the other two things kind of in that middle area be, are gonna be, I mean I think, um, much more like meditation and any type of whatever, meditation and breath work and those types of things are gonna be very, are work for a lot of different things and inexpensive and quick.

So it kind of checks off a lot of boxes. And I want to throw a third in there. I probably would say sauna at this point 'cause um, I deal with people all over the world at this point, and most people can find a sauna, be it a dry sauna or infra red sauna. A lot of the other stuff that's out there now isn't as, as readily available or people can't have in their home.

And I think those are three things that are very, I. I check off a lot of boxes and with all these people, any patient I do, I like things, I check off multiple boxes. If I can do that first, because it just makes things move faster and motivates [00:10:00] the patient to, okay, this is working now let's do a deeper dive.

I'm feeling it. Um, that's the thing with some of the things that we do is you may, you, your lab work may show, but you may say, look, I'm doing A, B and C, but I'm not feeling it. And then people think nothing's happening and they show. You have to show 'em, okay, look, but look at your labs, this is what's happening.

And they're, oh, okay, fine. But I think that's kind of, again, you have to kind of mix and match patient psychology with what's gonna get patients, bang for the buck with what they're gonna do. So, but that's kind of the middle tier stuff right there.

Cody: Yeah. And, and on that, I think you, your, your sauna use is definitely one that continues to show a lot of promise, that there was a finished study from 2015 that showed regular sauna use about four times a week, can cut heart disease risk almost in half.

Uh, and also Dr. Rhonda, Patrick seems to be really one of the leading figures on this, emphasizing the use of sauna therapy for cognitive and longevity benefits. Uh, and, and her, her podcast is great, uh, found MyFitness podcast would highly recommend it. Uh, is there any particular [00:11:00] regimen of the sauna use or is it just like access it like once a week?

Anything that you find particularly helpful in terms of why are you recommending sauna use? Uh, like what kind of goals are your clients trying to achieve? Is it just for general health? Is it for cognitive or physical health?

Dr. Neil Paulvin: Um, it's both. I mean, again, depends on who I'm dealing with and their, again, what their.

What the answer, the first set of questions was. But what's great is you can do both. I have patients who, in a perfect world, I love them to do three to four sessions a week, like you mentioned. If it's a dry sauna, 30 to 40 minutes. Uh, sorry, no, if, if it, if a dry sauna about 25 to 30 minutes, if it's infrared sauna, 35 to 45 minutes, it just doesn't get as hot.

So you need to get a little bit longer in there to optimize the benefits of it. Um, and again, Optim only three or four times a week, I'd like my athletes to get in there after the workout because the recovery and also proving VO two max and endurance. If it's somebody who's more on a, on a health situation, then I don't mind as much when they're doing it.

And I use it [00:12:00] for cognitive benefit. I use it for detox. I use it for the activation of the heat shock proteins and what that does, so again, it, it fits again, checks off a lot of boxes. It's pretty easy to do. A lot of people now have them in their homes. Um, so I think it, it does a lot different than what you said.

I know the other said the Rhonda, Patrick's a big proponent of it. I mean, everybody, I don't really, there's nobody at this point who's kind of blowing off on at this point has kind of gone from kind of a fad to, okay, this, there's, there's too much data here to kind of blow it off.

Cody: And then now we also have cold exposure methods like the Wim Hof method that's kind of exploded unpopularity recently, I think there was a study back in 2014 showed that, uh, cold showers can boost dopamine and strengthen the immune response. I'm wondering, is cold exposure something that you regularly incorporate in protocols for your clients?

Dr. Neil Paulvin: It's gone. Unfortunately, it's gone down a lot in my rankings in the last six months to a year. Um. Data is not there in a lot of cases. Yeah, it does. Like you said, [00:13:00] it does work on dopamine. So my patients who have mood issues or depression or have anxiety is great. 'cause it's something, again, everybody's access to a cold shower, 15 seconds and or 31 minute and you're done, which is great.

So for those situations, I'll definitely use it. Still, it's definitely great to calm down the parasympathetic and sympathetic para, uh, a sympathetic, um, overcharge where people are, are just in that fight or flight state. That's what it's really good for and it's free. So that's where I, I'll use it as a piece.

I don't, I think there's people out there who are over pushing, um. Cold is a, is a overall longevity therapy. It's, there are people who love it and they do it 11 to 15 minutes like you're supposed to. And it works. Their levels, their markers are great and they are at their best. But now that, especially with the data is coming out every couple weeks about how it affects muscle building and work as sports performance, and then we, that's one of the most muscle is one of the most important things you, [00:14:00] in terms of longevity and health to begin with.

So it does seem counterproductive in that regard. Um, so we, I tend, it's again, it's something where patients have to try you to do it around their major weight workouts during the week. Um, I will tell people to try to limit the time they're doing, there's a lot of these clubs. We'll try to have you do 10, 5, 10, 15 minute cold plunges, which we know are not the appropriate duration.

Um, so I just, again, I'm, I use three, four years ago I was loving it more and more. I, I use it personally. Um, but now I find it's a nice little add-on here and there, especially on the mood anxiety. And we now know the performance, now, the vagus nerve and sympathetic overdrive. So that's where I love it. Um, so it does affect the, I most patients will do it at some point, but it's not something that, that we're having them do 2, 3, 4 times a week.

Cody: Right. Yeah. It seems like recently there's been a bit of a backlash on cold yeast. I know personally, I have, I have a, a, a ice bath myself [00:15:00] and I like to get in there. It's like 51 degrees for about eight minutes. I don't shiver or anything like that, but I love it. It's kind of like an afternoon kind of a kick because you, you, you definitely feel that in your upper epinephrine kick for even like a few hours afterward.

And it just helps me kind of. Move on and, and be able to focus in a way, but certainly it's recommended since it can, you know, it, it reduces inflammation. So you shouldn't, you shouldn't get into an ice bath immediately after working out, um, unless you're doing some performative cardiovascular, cardiovascular exercise where muscle building is not the goal as I understand it.

Um, but I, I'm curious what is, so, so besides the aspect of increasing dopamine, your epinephrine and those benefits, what has the science recently said that, uh, is not like what we thought it was before about cold exposure?

Dr. Neil Paulvin: Um, it, it's kind of the opposite. It's that ha the data is not showing people who are talking about how, how great it is for immune boosting.

And then, and then so that, [00:16:00] and then also for brain health and it helps, again, it helps the mood, the dopamine neurophin release, but it may not help some, the inflammation or the mitochondrial reset part. So. Again, I like things that it's more than what's not showing. So again, if, if it's not gonna give you a lot of benefits, that page only have a certain amount of time to do things, that's where I'm heading to.

Does it work for a lot of people? Yeah. I say I, it's definitely in my, in my second tier of things I offer patients depending. Um, but again, it's just not as, again, I think there's really a lot of good data's not come out of it. It is more on the bad side. And so I just, again, that's why it's not that, it definitely are some smaller studies that show I think one six some really small immune boosting benefit, but nothing that's earth shattering.

Um, and then the weight loss things have really never have only been shown in animals and not in humans. So a lot of the data they've kind of, that a lot of the companies purport are not. Or not back game backed up. That's [00:17:00] unfortunate. There's definitely, again, there's definitely some benefit to it. And now a lot of people, and we're now definitely in the AI era where everybody's going on whatever their LM of, of choices to back and they can just say, okay, look, well, there's no data back, no human data backing this up or that up.

So it's not like they have to go through, uh, PubMed now and look at 17,000 articles. They have everything within five minutes in their, in the palm of their hand. So it's made things easier and also a little bit harder because patients are much more educated and like about their health to begin with and then they have that data backing up.

So we, it's just, again, the data's not per, it's not where it should be for that in certain things. Right. Um, and again, a lot of people saying for brain health or, or trying to build muscle or lose weight and it just doesn't fit in that, in that part. But again, my patients who just, who have issues with anxiety or, or.

Brain fog. It, it, it still has a nice fit there. So it's, it's a more of a niche type thing than Okay. Like, like sauna hyperbaric, which is gonna work on everything. [00:18:00]

Cody: Yeah. And, and now moving on to kind of intermittent fasting. I know intermittent fasting has also had some studies come out recently that seemed to go against this longstanding belief that it's, it's good for weight loss, uh, it's good for longevity.

In fact, I think one stu one recent study indicated that it, it's, it can have a, a, a negative effect on longevity. I'm, I'm wondering what, what kind of have you been following in relation to intermittent fasting and its safety and efficacy?

Dr. Neil Paulvin: Yeah, it's kind of fallen into the same, actually even probably a worse category than cold plunge because a lot of the studies are just showing that, again, it's either a, a net zero or a negative.

Um, I think the other part, the first thing is I think now, again, for variety of reasons, social, intermittent fasting, kind of like a lot of other terms out there has become. Bastard dies. It's like, what? What would you call intermittent fasting is not what I consider intermittent fasting and nobody knows what we're talking about.

We know that in most [00:19:00] cases, intermittent fasting is going, the benefits that people really want are gonna start anywhere between 16 hour, 16 hour 20, depending on the person. So that's number one Then, so that's the first thing. And then the second piece is gonna be some people are doing like these 12 hour breaks, which is mostly to try to reset the brain and have them help them potentially lose weight.

Not because of the demand fast itself, but training your insulin, trying to calm down the insulin spikes and things like that. So some people misinterpret what they're doing. They're not really doing quote unquote airman fasting in a true way. They're just trying to have an altered diet, maybe two meals a day.

So it's, it's become very confusing what actually people are trying to achieve with a. Um, intermittent fasting, I think for the right people, I think fasting has definite benefits to it. If you're gonna do it a longer term, people can do any over 24 hours, between 24 and 72 hours. Seems to be a sweet spot where the data actually is pretty good.

But if not a [00:20:00] lifestyle, a daily lifestyle change, that's somebody who's gonna do a fast once or twice, like once or twice every two to three months. They may do a 2, 3, 4, whatever. They can do that. Or even the fasting mimicking diet, something like a ProLon has day that's out there. Whereas a prolong, it's a, it's a simulated long term fast.

I think the 1214 hour fasting, even the 16 hours just doesn't have as much data. Especially is more concerned fe with female health, especially women who are having, uh, with normal menstrual cycles where it may affect you. You may wanna do intermittent fasting at certain times. There's some people who say it's great.

Other people say it doesn't work. I don't find it works well in my menstruating patients, especially my younger menstruating patients. So again, it's something where. I, a lot of my patients do try to do a 24 to three, six hour fast minimum, maybe once a quarter if they can do it. Some will do it once a month if they really like it because they find the, the, the, because that's when you're getting autophagy, which is clearing out your cells, you're getting the, um, whatchamacallit, you're getting the, the ketone [00:21:00] production.

We now know more and more about the benefits of ke of keto, either ketosis or exogenous ketones in terms of brain health and inflammation and things like that. So that's really why I, I just now use the term fasting, um, because that has benefits. Intermittent fasting, I just use more as a behavioral tool because it is a way of, of getting people to stop bingeing eating sometimes.

And they're not. And they're also eating normal sized meals and slowly eating them rather than saying, okay. And then the other problem becomes, okay, well I'm fasting for 16 hours. I now have to eat everything I want to eat in eight hours. Plus I need to coordinate diet with my workouts and make sure I'm getting enough protein.

And oh, by the way, I'm on Ozempic. There's that founding to get more pro. It's, it's, I just don't use it much old school, intermittent fasting, I just don't use much anymore for most people. I.

Cody: Yeah. And, and in hindsight that, that makes sense. I know when I was doing intermittent fasting, I would end up waiting to eat until like six o'clock and then I would gorge on [00:22:00] so much food that I would just feel terrible afterwards, even though I was eating relatively like healthy paleo ish food.

And it makes sense. The, the autophagy where your, your cells start to go into repair mode and, and the ketosis is that, uh, I, I know I would use ketosis sticks to, to measure am I, am I in ketosis? And I would find that, you know, intermittent fasting doesn't do that. And so it makes sense that only extended or longer fasts are going to have that kind of effect on your body.

That these sort of intermittent fasting isn't really doing a whole lot. But I, I completely agree. I think that's exactly right is that is for, intermittent fasting is very helpful for a behavioral perspective of if you're, if you're somebody who wakes up and you end up eating a lot of sugar in the morning, you can't control yourself.

Like that can start to help you try to change that behavior. So I, I see airman fasting perhaps as it's, as has its place, but isn't really what we thought it was in, at least in terms of say, fat loss or longevity in the same way that we thought it was. Um, so with that sense, I'd love to move into your wheelhouse [00:23:00] and kind of this more advanced optimization and to kind of supplements peptides and nootropics.

So I, I'm wondering, uh, how do you approach this arena when you have a client coming to you for, for advice, um, or recommendations?

Dr. Neil Paulvin: I mean, it goes back initially to those initial questions I mentioned initially about goals and how involved, 'cause again, then you're talking about, okay. How many pills do you wanna be taking a day?

Are you okay giving yourself three shots a day? Are you okay? A lot of these people are traveling all over the country or the world. They have to deal pretty much on ice and all those things. You, that's always the first question. But the main thing is what are their goals and then are they somebody who only wants to do with one or two things at a time or they're, they're in for the full.

A full kind of protocol. Um, and then again, also if they're naive to stuff, they've never really done anything. They just hear nods from what? Social media, a blog, whatever. We're gonna go slow with them, maybe do two or three things initially, if they, somebody come in and say, I'm already on doing A, [00:24:00] B, C, and D, and they speak the language where they understand stacking and, and, and, uh, cycling and all that stuff, but I wanna do this, this, and this.

Then we're doing a much deeper dive talking about how to combo stuff, how to. Again, how to cycle. It's for those who don't know, cycling is, you're not taking a lot of things. You're not taking in perpetuity. You may do think for 3, 6, 2 months at a time, stop it for two or three months and then potentially going back on it.

Or it could be a multiple month gap. It depends. So there it is. It's like juggling it. There's a rhythm to it. So, um, that's, those are the main things I'm looking at. And again, it depends on what their concerns are. Are they just trying to be better in the short term? Are they looking more on the long term things where they wanna, they have a family history of Alzheimer's or they've had concussions as, as a sports, as an athlete, a form.

So it all kind of depends.

Cody: Hmm. So Dr. Andrew Huberman frequently recommends specific nootropics like alpha, GPC, or Omega-3 specifically like a 1000 milligrams of EPA as a means of kind of enhancing general [00:25:00] cognitive function. I'm wondering are there any specific supplements or nootropics that you consistently see as delivering reliable results?

Like it in general, as like a baseline

Dr. Neil Paulvin: for brainers overall? Overall, I mean, pretty much the, I mean, what's actually kind of, I'm in Manhattan, so there's been a lot of lectures here and we, the last couple weeks we kind of have this debate. It's kind of exactly what you're asking is there's kind of like a core four or five that almost everybody agrees on that have, again, they have the efficacy, they worked, they're not insane, expensive and they have the data behind 'em.

So I mean, I mean now as we're recording this, creatine, I mean it sounds like creatine should be in the water at this point. Um, I mean we're actually now used to everybody six months ago was five grams. Now people are doing 15, 20 grams a day. Sometimes it's split doses. I mean that again, by hearing any dose, it's definitely talk to your healthcare provider.

Just have that little caveat in there. Um, creatine fish oil, which you mentioned. And again, even I tend to push fish oil unless it's a stomach issue. Um, [00:26:00] because again, there's a lot of different benefits to it. Vitamin D after their levels are not where it should be. Um, uh, I love coq 10, which does have really good data to it.

Those are, and then those are kind of the core four things that apply to everybody in terms of supplementation. And then there's different ones that we kind of will mix and match depending on the person. I mean, there's things like, um, Toine or Agen or, um, like the new NED, the new NR that has just come out of the precursors.

Those are kind of, uh, I mean curcumin is now more and more data coming out. The polyphenols are either gonna get through food or through supplementation. That's kind of the next kind of level there. Um, in terms of just true supplements that are out there that I would say are kind of the ones that we tend to recommend to everybody or most people, um, you do wanna do an antioxidant and that's, at least most of the time, athletes wanna be more a little more careful.

'cause we know two excess antioxidants are gonna cause issues [00:27:00] in terms of performance. So we'll recommend. A lot of people now are doing glutathione because like just doing an injection once or twice a week. Some people are doing what's called herba thine, which is a, a really good specific antioxidant.

Um, we'll try to do, also, try to, in theory, target senescence, which is, it's kind of the zombie cells, which is kind of get the terminology for how we do that is still kind of a little bit of a, a debate at this point. I mean, corin efficient seems to be the, the simplest point We have the most side effects.

There's some newer things out there. We're still kind of trying to, that probably will be ready for prime time in a little bit in the future. And then mitochondrial support, and that's usually gonna be like, as I mentioned, coq 10, um, really at coq 10. And we're looking at antioxidant, we're looking at your, a supple called Juli and a, um, which has a lot of benefits also in terms of the workout space.

So that's kind of what we're looking at overall. And then we just try to figure out the best way to make a combo of those different things without, without going overboard. [00:28:00]

Cody: Are there any one of these? So, so you mentioned like glutathione injections, but I know you can get that in a pill. And then same for NAD or nr.

So I know it, they're popularized for doing IV therapies, but you can also buy them in a pill. Are you finding, are there any specific nootropics that you recommend should be through injection or can they be equally taken and have an equal level of efficacy? Uh, through just supplements in general?

Dr. Neil Paulvin: Um, how do I answer that question Because, um, there's actually a lot of nuance to that.

Um, if it's just for brain function, I don't love the certain, a lot of the pills that are out there, if, if it comes down to it. Um, I'm not a fan of any of the glutathione pills. I mean, we know just based on bioavailability, it either should be shot or iv. Um. Gonna say. And then in terms of amino things like Corona tumor, which is actually a good nootropic.

Again, same answer. We refer patients to injection iv. The data's just a lot better [00:29:00] on it. Even patients who are just using for testosterone production to boost receptors. So, um, I think a lot of cases, injection IV is better. Again, it comes down to practicality a little bit. I mean, creatine's obviously one that you isn't can be is there's no IV anyway.

But creatine is a powder is amazing. Fish oil is a pill is amazing in most patients. Just gotta make sure it's not ransom, it's a quality product. Curcumin is a pill, is amazing. Um, there is now a lot of people now who are starting to do Ivy Curcumin. Um, and that may use, I, I imagine senescent for that may be something we start using as a lytic in the, in the near future.

And for things like Alzheimer's. So that, I mean, that's fine as a pill again, long as this quality product. Um, methylene blue, which has gotten a lot more controversy in the last month or two, um, as a pill does work really well. As long as you kind of understand the nuances to it. It's not, it's not something be [00:30:00] taking in high.

Some of the high doses are on the internet, um, but you can do oral. I do have patients who do IV and they do, in some cases will do better, but it's not something that you have to do. Um, NADI, the new n audits con the last six to eight weeks is either injection or IV right now. So that's kind of a mandate at this point.

I mean, you can do well with one m and a or the precursors. They're not as good, but they are helpful and they are in oral form. Um, another and last one I'll mention in terms of nootropics is like RG three, which is a ginseng through which is a nose spray, which a lot of pro athletes can use 'cause it's, it's natural.

Um, that's, and something kind of goes to the point where if we're just, if you want something just in terms of brain health, we'd lot tests will have 'em do no sprays because they penetrate the blood, get into the brain much easier than pills will. It's lot more effort for them to get in there. Um, so I am, for brain specifically, I'm not usually as big of a fan of, [00:31:00] of pills as other people are.

I think if you're do 'em for general health, then you have a little more leeway. But brain brain's protected for a reason and you wanna make sure what you're doing, if you're especially with an issue, is getting in there. And sometimes that's either IV or nose spray. Or even self injections opposed to just taking a pill.

Hope your gut can digest it. It's gonna get plus the past, the blood brain barrier, and then have get to where it needs to get to.

Cody: Hmm. Yeah, there's obviously so much nuance to this and there's new studies and information coming out all the time. Uh, thus necessitates the importance of seeking out somebody like yourself to help guide somebody so that they don't, uh, mess, mess themselves up in, in a way that they shouldn't.

Um, because we want to increase performance, not decrease it. And on that note, there's somebody, Dave Asprey, I'm sure you're, you're familiar. He kind of popularized the idea of using Modafinil as a nootropic for productivity and subways as like an alternative to Adderall. And there's been an explosion of these kind kinds of, of cognitive [00:32:00] enhancers and things like, there's like sub Roxy Sobut, op Piracetam, tyrosine, um, uh, montane, and all these tend to increase dopamine levels.

I'm, I'm curious, what's your perspective on using cognitive enhancers regularly?

Dr. Neil Paulvin: Um, I respect gig. He is gotten, he was definitely one of the first to into the area. Um, again, I think because of where we are now, I, I don't actually, I was, I was somewhere that I got into, I think it was X or something where I was getting a debate with people out there.

Um, there, the reason people use a lot of those is because they're trying to, they're dealing with a, they're, they're dealing with healthcare providers who don't have no idea, understand the space at all. So they're trying to self-medicate in a lot of cases. Um, so I, I, I'm not, again, there's so many more things out there now than even a couple years ago, so I'm not as big of a point of those things as I was even a couple years ago.

But defin I [00:33:00] find is great as a general reset is 'cause it's a really big, powerful sledgehammer. Initially it's great. I think it's also great to be used episodically like maybe once or twice a week. I tend to don't like patient on it in perpetuity because I think it just, they tend to have more side effects and brain fog than benefits from it.

There are some people who do really well with it, but I do like it episodically. I think it, but it's, it's, there are people out there who use it is the only thing. I just don't think it's there. I think, again, I think things that dopamine boosters are great for the right person in the short term. It's just not something you need to, you're could have some long-term side effects on the down end, on the, on the back end.

If you could just do them as your only go-to and, and don't fix the problem. I think that's the thing with the brain is we can now do a lot of data and testing and scans where we can figure out what the problems are. And that's kind of how you want to do it and not just kind of do, just guessing and throwing darts somewhere.

Um, the other ones you mentioned like Sub Roxy and Broan and [00:34:00] ept and the ones that people love. Assuming that we'll just again, assume that they're getting good quality product, it's harder to confirm if it's good or not. I mean, especially for some of them, um, they're for the right Broan is great for the right person.

Again, I think in short Blast Suby, as long as it's done with the same con right combos, I think it's okay. I think, again, I just keep saying, I think right now this is better things out there right now and I'm not, I used to be, I used to five, used to be 5, 6, 7 years ago. I love the Raam. It's just not something I even recommend to people anymore.

It's kind of like a 17-year-old driving a race car. It is very powerful and you just don't know where it's gonna go. I mean, you have to make sure you're on the right dose and you're on the right raam, you're getting a choline source and. It's just, I find I, I find it very hard to get people for where they want to be with that.

And again, there's so many other things now out there between technology and [00:35:00] some of the other peptides, and even just, again, simple s and I've had people taking 10 grams of creatine and say, wow, I'm a new person. Um, and that's no side effects and it's very easy to manage. And so I think it's getting replaced.

I think a lot of those are gonna get replaced. And as more and more things come out probably in the next year to 18 months, I think a lot of the, kind of the broad stroke ones. Or we're gonna just kind of be the black market people and a lot of the other ones, we're gonna see a lot more cleaner instruments that we can use.

So I think, again, that's where a lot of this stuff, I think we're seeing where the data's out, obviously, I mean, as the abilities of dollars are being poured into this space where every, every website and every influencer now and every business is having a longevity and optimization part of their company.

I mean, the data is just, is of new things are pouring out every week it seems like. I think when Dave started the, he was against the grain and now this stuff is almost human nature. I mean, [00:36:00] is everybody talk, everybody monitors their sleep and everybody's doing something for their brain health. So I think now, again, I think there's other things out there, but the, those things definitely have their place.

I just think it's, they're more episodic than, than Holy Grail at this point. I.

Cody: Right. And, uh, I'm, I'm, he's experimented with a lot of these things. I know like Modafinil, it increases your, your dopamine levels by 150 to 200% above your baseline. And the thing that I kind of found myself stuck in is kind of like a cyclic loop where you, you, you use the substance, you, you experience that focus, that attention, and then you need it again.

And you might try to balance between different types of nootropics or cognitive enhancers, but I think you're getting kind of a risk of diminishing, uh, basically you're diminishing your baseline dopamine, right? And so that's like the risk that you can kind of get caught in. I think Broin Lu might be like small exception to that rule in terms of it actually helping to have, uh, perhaps like a neuroprotective effect.

[00:37:00] Um, but a, a lot of these, they're kind of like, you know, hitting yourself with a, a, a, a smaller version of Adderall in a way. Um, is, is that kind of what you find in terms of why you think these are kind of on the way out? And I'm, I'm curious as to if you don't recommend these substances necessarily more kind of, what do you recommend in place of them?

Dr. Neil Paulvin: Like I said, right now, I definitely think a lot of them are on their way out or just not, I mean, again, I think Modafinil has its place, and if I have somebody who's literally, I mean, if you look at the, what it's actually indicated for, for shift workers and people who work to have flip days, it's, it's, it's an incredible medication.

It's just like you said, you'll get brain, you get side effects from it. And again, now we have other things to use. Um, I think so. Um, and again, I think we, so number one is, like I said, we can do lab work, we can do cognitive testing through either QEG or labs or PET scans, or we can look at the brain and say, okay, no, here's where the problem is.

You've, you've accessed brain inflammation or unfortunately there's [00:38:00] build of tau or amyloid protein or sinin, or you have an autoimmune, you've had damage to your blood brainin barrier and now you have an autoimmune brain issue. So we wanna work on, because I can give you all the broan you want if you're not fixing your immune system or fixing the blood brain barrier.

Is the question, are you chasing your tail? Or now again, unfortunately, or unfortunately, with the popularity of toxins and microplastics and all these things, if your toxin levels are through the roof, I should be fixing your toxin level and clearing them out of you and helping you remove them from your lifestyle, not just giving you bro tane.

And we have all now, seven, 10 years ago when Dave started all that, that really wasn't there yet. Now it's, anybody can access that. It's not insanely expensive anymore. Um, so again, I think that's kind of, we fixed the problem if somebody's a moody issue or they know that, oh my, I have a big presentation coming up, or I'm just burnout.

I need something to get me going for these next two or three days, they have their place. But again, in terms of the old most people, they have a dopamine issue. It's either from [00:39:00] this increased inflammation, increased stress of brain trauma. They may not be making enough for whatever reason, gut diet, ili, again, all fix the problem, and those are just bandaids in the short term.

Um, what am I using? Long answer to the short, long answer to a short question is, I mean, I kinda, I mean, I, I love the tech. I mean, anybody who can hop on a hyper back or, or do a red light with, and then also work on their, if you do that work on, do a red light helmet, wave in a red light panel and potentially work on your vagus nerve or from cold to like a vagus nerve stimulator, you are hitting three with really three really powerful tools by themselves.

Um, I love, again, I, I said I, I love creatine. I think creatine. I love, um, lotus naltrexone for the brain, which is not it. Most people can't get that themselves. They need to get that through a doctor, um, just because it, it wor resets the microglial cells, which are linked to a lot of the damage in the brain, and it combats inflammation out a RP three and a lot of [00:40:00] other stuff.

So it did a lot of things with minimal side effects. Um, for the right person. I still love methylene blue, even though I was getting some bad raps recently. I like etro lyin if they have access to a doctor or I love cortex and for people who don't have access to it, um, those are peptides. Um, I'm finding a lot of people with the new NR injections or IVs, they're saying that they're getting amazing benefits from, we still waiting for the no data.

And another one I'll throw out there now is a lot of patients are on the GLP ones, especially like Zep bound or Manjaro. 'cause the way it works is are having great benefits. So that, I mean, to me, and I mentioned RG three already, so those are kind of, I mean there's so, again, there's so many other ones out there depending on what the issue is.

Um, I mean, but those are kind of a really good packet. One other one is something called plasmin, the product called prodrome, which are a fatty acid you need for your ace. Um, that helps with the conductive of the nerves and the way the neurons work. That's another one that's really good. So, and then you need to work [00:41:00] on mitochondrial health.

So again, there's a lot you with brain health now. You want to hit all those different buckets, not just, oh, dopamine, or let's put you on this raam, which we're not sure really what it's doing, but it, it's gonna give you that quick caffeine or stimulant burst, and then you're gonna crash again. That's, again, it's short term.

It, it's not, it's not a fiction, a problem solution. And that's kind of where again, I'm at right now.

Cody: So, so largely is try to avoid, uh, these dopaminergic substances perhaps, and focus on other aspects of general health and wellbeing. You get yourself to where you wanna be is kind of generally what you're saying.

Dr. Neil Paulvin: Um, definitely do that, but again, for in the short term, if, if, if you're overworked or you have a lot of stress or just have a motivation c. For whatever reason. It could be mental. It could be physical. It's short, it's great. And they're good in I, Broan is great in the short term. Modafinil is great in the short term, um, EP for the right.

What about Cmax and Clan? They work a little bit differently. I, um, [00:42:00] Cmax and Clan are great add-ons. I don't have that many people who say, who use it by themselves and say, wow, I'm on cmac and Clan. I feel like a new person. Um, but they do work and they have very minimal side effects and they're very easy to control.

But again, I have like, I tend to add them in. And again, because you only can really use 'em for three or four months, I'll get 'em on the things I mentioned they'll do if they'll do CMAC and or clan for 2, 3, 4 months and then we'll add another thing depending on where we are. Um, but, but that's kind of how I do things.

And I, again, I think a lot of people are heading that way, that some of the older school ones are more episodic.

Cody: Hmm. And so you briefly mentioned, uh, the GLP ones. I believe there, there's two main ones on the market race, semaglutide and, and tirzepatide, if I'm saying that correctly. But then there's also a third one called, uh, IDE that I believe is still undergoing kind of research and from, uh, understanding how these GLP ones act on our, our dopamine system as well, [00:43:00] is that the reason why they seem to be having a positive effect on helping people with, uh, alcohol cessation, um, or cigarette cessation, is that it's, it's lowering your dopaminergic drive to, to have cravings for these substances.

So simultaneously it seems that there's kind of a ancillary, uh, report is that. Along with these substances, people reporting kind of depression, anhedonia, which for those you don't know, is a lack of ability to experience pleasure. Um, I'm wondering, are these any kinds of side effects that you've seen within your practice?

Um, and do you think there's a place for these GLP ones in terms of microdosing? I know Brian Johnson was recently Microdosing Semaglutide, but he stopped simply because he noticed that it increased his, his, uh, his heart rate, his uh, resting heart rate,

Dr. Neil Paulvin: the of the medication. Um, so what's the first part of the question?

Or is it, is it something that might do I see a lot of side effects with the med, the GOP ones.

Cody: Well, I guess I'm mostly interested in the dopaminergic aspect of how these tend to lower [00:44:00] dopamine levels, which can cause depression or anhedonia. Is that something that's kind of just under-reported because the patients who are on it are just so happy with, you know, the fat loss effects.

Um, is this something that say somebody who's kind of just trying to get a little bit more fit, say they're going to the gym, they're trying to lose that extra bit of body weight, do you think there's a place for those people, and I've seen it kind of being used in that experience underground, not some, somebody who's obviously has a high BMI that it's prescribed for.

Um, but curious, do you think there's a, there's a place for that and what kind of effects have you seen in terms of any patients that you prescribed it to?

Dr. Neil Paulvin: Yeah, so I mean, I don't, I mean there are some of the studies out there that show that there are other ones you show because of the way it works in multiple G there's multiple GLP receptors in the brain.

That way it works on the hippocampus and other areas that it's actually helping the mood. So I, I very rarely have seen mood issues with any of that type of stuff. Sim simply, it's kind of, you gotta fill the bucket faster, it's leaking. If they're already dealing with multiple brain issues, is there a slight chance [00:45:00] there could be an increased risk?

The data that was initially out has been disproven in terms of leading to depression, other mood issues that it was just the way the studies were done. So it was study error. Um, I've had nobody have any type of mood disorder from it specifically. Um, and then in terms, so again, in terms of the dope means, again, there's not studies out there head does decrease the effect the how much patients are smoking and drinking alcohol.

So it's, it's the way it works on the brain globally and also with the gut and the vagus nerve. So it's working more in multiple areas. So I, I see as a net positive, it may affect dopamine production on, on a smaller term, but it, it, there's still a bigger positive than negative effect. Um, so. I, I use it. I, it's become probably one of my, my biggest go-to.

I mean, I don't treat a lot of patients with addiction issues by themselves, but a lot of times they'll come in and say, yeah, I'm more a little overweight, or, I want to use it for health maintenance, and I, I drink too much. Or I, [00:46:00] I, I wanna go rid my smoking habit. I've heard a, B, or C is helpful. Um, so then we will, I, so I, I use an, I use it as a combo in terms of micro, I think microdosing, again, it's one of those terms, like I mentioned before, it's kind of ambassador die a little bit.

I. In the sense that, again, every, every influencer and whatever is talking about it. Microdosing is great. My, you're not, I love microdosing for patients who are not trying to lose weight. I love microdosing For patients who are, or, or finishing up and they feel like the other effects like that we've seen, like decrease inflammation or cognitive mood or the smoking, then we'll micro dose as much as we can.

I've had very few people say, I'm gonna do half the normal dose and lose weight on the meds. Maybe somebody who needs to lose like two or three pounds, which is again, a whole nother ethical discussion for another day, um, may do it. So my weight loss patients, I'm not using microdosing initially. My patients are getting health, other health benefits.

That's where we do do the [00:47:00] microdosing and I think it is great. The downside is right now we don't really have that many, we have very no studies on microdosing on the, any dosing below. I. The 2.5 on Zep bound or the 0.5 'em or 0.25 on, on Semaglutide. So, and then the problem is, right now the drug companies don't want to, aren't doing those tests.

So you're kind of in a black hole of, well, with a lot of these things, we want tests, who's gonna pay or who do these tests and, and in an appropriate way. Um, so it is kind of a gray area. We see enough patients with benefits of it that, and there's no harm to it if we know it's lower than the, the starting dose.

I'll keep doing it as much as I can. Um, but I, I think, and I think more and more people will be doing it, but it's not something that everybody should be doing. I think, again, everybody goes on podcasts, say, oh, microdosing for everyone. And I, again, I, I think that it comes with a big grain of salt.

Cody: Hmm. Uh, and so, uh, GLP ones are really the most popular peptide that there is right now, but I [00:48:00] think the one that's been in the community for the longest is BPC 1 5 7 Body Protective Compound.

And I know that's been growing a lot. And also like you have the Wolverine stack where you can combine BB, C and then TB 500 as seemingly like the number one stack for helping if you have some kind of, uh, injury muscle injury. Uh, I, I'm curious, what kind of peptides, uh, outside of the g GLP ones do you find most popular or that you recommending the most often?

Dr. Neil Paulvin: Um, I mean, you probably hit on 'em. I mean definitely BPC and the LRE and Stack are by far number one at this point. I think GHK is catching up really quickly. GHK Copper, because of its skin benefits, it does a little bit of brain benefit as well. Um, but GHK is very quick. I

Cody: think that. Yeah, sorry. That the, the risk with that, as I recall is that, uh, I guess it turns your, your, your skin can be, improves your skin a lot, but then you can become too tan and that perhaps you should also avoid the sun.

Uh, that you have to get the dosage. Really that's

Dr. Neil Paulvin: moan [00:49:00] one and that's melanotan one and two. So JS K really shouldn't have cause any issues on normal dosing. A lot of stuff because of the way people are talk about dosing, it's kind of the same thing that's happening with methylene blue a lot that it gets made, not made fun of, but gets downgrade or downplayed because the dose that people are, are seeing these side effects are, is not what, where we prescribe the medications at.

Um, no, I mean GSK especially, a lot of 'em are using the cream form and they with great is you can mix it with almost any other skin compound under the sun, NED or rapamycin or all these different things that work really, really well. Um, so those are probably by far the two. Those are the leaders right now by a lot At this point.

Um, a lot of the weight loss peptides have lost some steam just because everybody's on the GLP ones at this point. A lot of times we'll use that on the, where people who don't want to use or don't wanna spend the money on the GLP ones anymore. Things like Tessa Fencing, the other one that's seen on used Popularities and Lox, which used to be a prescription for, as an [00:50:00] antihistamine.

It's great for people with mast cell issues, which is people who can't use their histamine pro, uh, appropriately and they hives and brain fog and gut issues. And it also, the weight loss also helps with brain inflammation. So it's being used, I use it now as an add-on in my brain Fog patients, the patients love it.

Um, those are by far the three that are out there. One that's not really a peptide, it's not a peptide, it's a pro. A compounded is something called sloop, which is, sorry, in the weight loss, in the weight build weight and the body building community. And now it's something that we helps with. Muscle building, weight loss, energy cognition.

Um, we still don't know the exact appropriate dosing yet, but it's something that you're gonna hear more and more about. That's probably gonna be the new hot thing that's out there. It probably already is in a lot of circles. Um, it's just gonna be trying to, again, really trying to harness like we know how to dose BPC, we know to dose, um, what I'm call it.

We know how to dose GHK, and I, we don't really know perfectly sloop yet, but that's the one that people will be asking for and already starting to [00:51:00] ask for. Now,

Cody: one combination that I've seen mentioned a lot online is CJC 1, 2, 9 5 at ior, which as I understand, work together to have a rapid increase in growth hormone, but is, uh, as long as it doesn't have the DAC.

Um, so it doesn't have as much of an effect on ghrelin and on your, your, your, your hunger and, uh, as much of a bad impact on your glucose levels. Uh, and that seems to be useful for helping to decrease the body fat, helping to increase, uh, muscle, uh. Muscle gain if you're working out. Um, and that's kind of in a growth hormone, types of peptides.

Is that something that you, you talk about at all, or, or look into or, or recommend?

Dr. Neil Paulvin: I do. I use it. I like it a lot. Um, the 'cause you said it works on different and on two different, um, pathways, which makes it a little more effective. You don't get, and you don't have the side effects on either one, which is great, is very hard to get quality GCJC at this point.[00:52:00]

Um, which makes it a little more complicated. Um, patients will have, are having to use quote unquote research grade. Which is not really regulated. And, um, and that, that's a personal decision of where they, I mean, a lot of people now are self-testing their peptides. Um, there's, that's a big business thing now where a lot of labs are opening up, and that's, again, a whole nother conversation for another day.

But no, but the between the skin benefits, the brain benefits, the healing muscle building, we're hoping that we, hopefully more and more lot of studies were happening before the pandemic on using growth hormone, low dose growth hormone in a health optimization, healing fashion we're undergoing. And then they kind of got stopped during the pandemic and they're starting to come back up again.

Um, we know they're great for wound healing, post-surgery, pre-surgery. They definitely have their place. It's just, um, really just finding quality product at this point. But it's definitely in that next tier. Um, t th and beta four CJC, um, Mozy is another one if you can [00:53:00] find it. And a new product called SS 31 or Eptide, which is great for brain health and heart health.

Those are kind of the next tier ones that are, we used for a lot of patients. Um, and they're great. All 'em have their, have huge upside to 'em.

Cody: Hmm. And in terms of sourcing, you mentioned that a few times. So I know that you can buy these peptides online. There's so many different vendors online, and you can join Facebook groups.

There's, there's the peptides subreddit, uh, and I guess they, they don't really recommend them on, they're not allowed to recommend specific vendors on Reddit anymore. But, uh, you can find a lot of vendors that sell these types of peptides and they all say, uh, not for human consumption. Uh, in reality, like a lot of them could be mixed in somebody's kitchen or they might be buying it all from the same vendor.

In Chi, you know. Maker in China. So as you said, like quality control is really, really difficult. I know being involved in some of these Facebook groups is that some people will do, will, will test the peptides that they buy and they'll post the results online [00:54:00] because a little known fact that people aren't aware of, even though all these supplement vendors, uh, peptides, like they will publish their, their third party testing, but all they're doing is sending one sample to this lab and you know, they could send them whatever they want, you know, and that's what they end up testing and they get a certificate for that.

It's not somebody who's coming to their facility and actually testing, you know, the ingredients off the manufacturing line. Um, so some of these peptides, I'm curious, are they things that you can go to a doctor for and ask, uh, for a prescription? Or are some of these not, you're not even allowed to prescribe as a doctor?

Like where would somebody want to go if they want to have, um, quality

Dr. Neil Paulvin: peptides? You've hit the million, billion, trillion dollar question at this point. Um, I'm not, the only thing I'll say I'm not, I mean that we thought with the new administration and they're very propeptides of the PE people he brought into the administration, we thought things would be cleared out much quicker than they are.

Um, so we were, that didn't happen and we don't foresee that happening in the near future. Um, that I thought that would be the [00:55:00] first resolution. So right now, it really comes down to, and I, again, I literally have gone to multiple debates in the last two weeks on social media and, and multiple facets is it really comes down to your mindset.

I mean, in a perfect world, you would get products that are, that are done through a compounding pharmacy that are tested, and there's stated and natural regulation on what you can and can't do and how you do it and how it's supposed to be checked to make sure it's efficacious. Um, but those are expanded.

Those have to be done through a doctor. Now, because every pharmacy makes only different products because of business reasons. Then it's, and then also where you live. If you live in California or Michigan and now Massachusetts, they're very hard to get anything sent to them. So now it becomes a dance of not only, it's, so that's part of the issue.

So a lot of people are saying, I don't wanna deal with a doctor. They don't know about peptides like I do. Then I'm just gonna do the research. And I'm like, you said, I'm gonna self-test the labs and understand it's for research only [00:56:00] and, and take that chance. So it's a big, people need to understand in their mind what the biggest product.

Like I don't wanna spend $500 seeing somebody who really knows this stuff. And, and I understand there's some people who are very knowledgeable, um, and they want to do, and we, we kind of gone to the self doing phase of, of health optimization for various reasons. And I think because of ai, that's only going to continue to become a way of doing things.

Um, again, I'm, I'm, I'm of course jaded and, and, and boy and, and, uh. And kind of what before, I'm just kind of, I, I always say get anything you can from a compound of pharmacy first. But again, I think with we're gonna, that may change at some point, depending on either the government's gonna change the rules because they see how much benefit there is, they wanna regulate it.

Or 80% of the people are gonna go into the non-regulated because of they can't jump through all these hoops anymore because the hoops are getting worse, more than better at this point. And then, and certain, more and more people would just say, I don't wanna wait [00:57:00] two weeks for my peptides. I don't want to have to go from one pharmacy, it just, or spend X amount of money on it.

So I think we're at a crossroads in the next six to nine months, I think will have a winner because I know literally three or four personal labs are coming out and the price points aren't bad. So I think eventually, like you said, people post, oh, so-and-so is really good quality stuff and I. They may tend to do that.

We'll have to say. I hope they don't, but I think that that may win out eventually in the, in the, at least the next year or two.

Cody: Yeah, I know RFK juniors seem to be open to peptides and kind of opening that up. And I guess prior to the new administration, uh, there was, I believe there was a ban on BPC 1 5 7, but then you could prescribe an alternate compound then.

I'm not sure if that ban is still in place, bpc, but

Dr. Neil Paulvin: certainly

Cody: it's,

Dr. Neil Paulvin: yeah, so those with at BPC 1 5 7, it's a DT and compounding pharmacies are the best at, at, at, at winning the game and being two [00:58:00] separate ahead of the administration. By just changing the formulation slightly, it becomes a new compound, obviously, and that's not on the band list.

So they can make it. And then eventually, like, it's kind of like any other game, like if you're a sports fan in the water list, they eventually catch on and they change it a little bit. Again, it's like. It's a, it's a cat and mouse game.

Cody: Yes, cat and mouse. Yeah.

Dr. Neil Paulvin: So there's definitely other forms now, B, B, C, which I've had patients use, and they say it's just as good as the old stuff.

Um, and not had anybody say this isn't working like the old school BBC anymore. And they're, the weird part of this whole thing, and I'm, again, I'm not gonna get political, is you can't prescribe the BBC injections or any of these. Some of the ones that are on the band list is an injection form, but if you take it as a pill or a capsule or even a nose spray, that's fine.

So it's a very weird demarcation of what you can and can't do. Like if you go to any, a lot of these high quality pills, I can tell you five companies, I make good BBC pills and they're not on the ban list. They have no issues. The FDA is not coming after them. There's nobody knocking at their door and I don't [00:59:00] understand the difference.

Um, which is weird, which says it's, again, there's no something else going on. But, um. Again, I think, yeah, I think we'll have to see what happens. It is a cat mouse game and I know, again, I tell patients right now from almost, if you know how to play, know what's out there, you can almost get every peptide that was on the band list, except for one that is still hard to get.

And that's mostly 'cause nobody, it wasn't very popular and for most people there's no money in it. Um, but you can pretty much get everything in some other formulation or there's some, some pharmacy still making it, but it's a cat mouse game. But, and with the good part is a lot of these ones that you change by one or two amino acids or added bond or something, or, or almost as affected as what the original was.

And the government just can't ca keep up and it won't.

Cody: Right. And I guess we can, we can hope, and I, I assume as, as more of this knowledge about the benefits of peptides come out is that the government will be more open to, uh, the, the use [01:00:00] of these compounds. Um, because it's clear that this aspect of, you know, as Peter t has pointed out with his, his health 2.0, is that health and medicine for the longest time has just been about treating disease.

But now we need to look at how do we optimize lifespan? How do you optimize for your, your health span, as he would say, in terms of living the longest, being healthy into your eighties, uh, and being, having your cognitive function, you know, be with you throughout your entire lifetime. So I think we're gonna see, uh, a trans, we're starting to, to see a transition, I think, for that.

And I hope that's just gonna continue from where it's at today.

Dr. Neil Paulvin: I hope so, because we're now looking at the, I mean, prevention medicine. I keep saying this, I was on an event yesterday, I know prevention mat, preventative medicine as opposed to the way we do in medicine in the us. Is where we're heading to.

And that, and the generation behind me and the generations behind me are, are gonna do it. And that makes more sense in a logical way that it prevent illness right now, just treat it on the backend and peptides are part of that. So I think it's eventually gonna be part of the [01:01:00] mainstream. It's just, I, it could take 5, 10, 15 years.

Like they, so I hope it's sooner. It's just gonna be, again, the way the, it's part of it's is always trying to deal with the government, which is obviously can be tough, but I think we're, we're getting there slowly but surely it's just gonna be how fast can we get things to move.

Cody: Uh, so I'd love to just go through some rapid fire questions just to kind of close out today's conversation.

Sure. Great. Uh, what's the best supplement everybody should consider?

Dr. Neil Paulvin: Uh, everybody should consider creatine.

Cody: What's the most overrated health trend right now?

Dr. Neil Paulvin: Overrated. Um. I think you hit on both of them at this point. Um, I would probably say fast intermittent fasting 'cause there would been more benefit to, to, uh, cold.

Cody: What's a favorite daily habit that you, that you would prescribe for high performers? [01:02:00]

Dr. Neil Paulvin: Um, I mean, it's two. It's either, um, it's either doing some type of mindset practice when you wake up and, or it's actually a simple thing for my, a lot of my high performers, it's get the work. If they can make it work in their schedule, get things done between like that five and seven hours in the morning, that's when their, their brain's gonna work the best where things are quiet no matter what their, their lifestyle is.

Those are the simple things that they have this long, the biggest long-term benefits, um, because they feel productive, their brain is going and then they also have time to do everything else.

Cody: Yeah. What's the biggest waste of money you've seen in health optimization?

Dr. Neil Paulvin: Wow. Um, the biggest waste of money. I mean, there's a lot of them now, or that you think is

Cody: like biggest.

I am trying to waste of money in terms of, [01:03:00]

Dr. Neil Paulvin: um, I mean, I think the alchem, I mean the al organization, Al Al, Al Canalized water and all those types of things, I think is a huge waste of money. Um, I'm trying to think. And now of course, now I can't think of one of other ones besides that one. Um, um, I, I'm probably going to get yelled at for this.

I think a lot of the, the older school ozone stuff is, I think there's not good data for it and I just, I think it's kind of a waste of money. There are people who do great with it. I just haven't seen a lot of patients do great with it. Those are probably the two things I can think off the top of my head.

Cody: And and what's the most underrated biohack that you think more people should know about?

Dr. Neil Paulvin: Well, if you're taking cost out of it, um, I mean, I mean, I would say, well, a cheap one would be just putting red and orange light bulbs in your house for at night. Um, your house, [01:04:00] the light should be the color of the sun.

So during the day, yellow is fine, but at night when it's like orange and red, that's what you should be looking at. In terms of the cost agnostic type things, I mean, I think hyperbaric is by far the best. At this point, there's just too many benefits from it. It's just unfortunately not easy to access or could be cost people out at this point.

Anything that'll be talking about in, if you did this interview in a year from now, it would probably be plasma exchange or plasmapheresis, which is kind of like an oil change for your body. And some just A studies came out, I think last week where we're doing this in terms of it lowers your biological age by two and a half years.

It lowers your inflammation, it lowers your autoimmune issues, and there'll be more studies coming out in the next year or so. The problem is, right now it's anywhere between eight to 12 grand a session, so not everybody's gonna be doing that, but I think as the price and availability comes, goes up and down, I think that's gonna be probably, but maybe number one.

Cody: Hmm. That, that, that, that brings some follow up questions before I go to my conclusion. Uh, I know that Brian [01:05:00] Johnson just did a video where he used the, the hyperbaric chamber for, for a period of time. I don't believe it was like, 60 days. And he measured his levels or his biomarkers and he showed improvement, but he is not sure just yet, uh, as to whether or how often you need to be using a hyperbaric chamber.

And there's a lot of controversy, people saying, because it looks like he has a hyperbaric chamber that's like a hundred thousand dollars, but you can buy a hyperbaric chamber for, I mean, really as little as like $5,000 to 15 or $20,000. Um, it's a lot more accessible than you would think. Um, however, to buy one, you do have to have a doctor's prescription.

I'm wondering, is that something you ever prescribe? Do you think people should be. Can be doing it in their home as long as they're buying the right equipment. Um, and do you think that there's like a routine that somebody should be regularly using the hyperbaric chamber on a regular basis or can they just use it?

I think, uh, uh, I know that, that Brian Johnson was seem seeming to infer that, uh, you just need to do it very, like maybe once or twice a week for a few [01:06:00] weeks, um, to get the benefit. Um, but I'm curious, what, what are your thoughts on that? Uh, in terms of like, can people have a hyperactive chamber at home?

Um, what's the cheapest you think they could buy it for? Um, or should they be going to a facility to, to do that?

Dr. Neil Paulvin: Wow, you were in a, a Pandora's box with that. Um, okay, let me quickly, so, um, is, I mean people ha I lo I love Brian Johnson for getting a lot of this out to the mass public. He is a great marketing.

Um, you a lot of times you gotta take, he tends to, a lot of his protocols are not what anybody else does and he is also spent so much time optimizing that what he gets done is what almost would happen to nobody else. So you really gotta be careful judging a lot of stuff just by what happens to him kind.

You mentioned the glide before is that he's so healthy, he does so many things that what he may get benefits from is not what anybody else would. And also, again, like you said, he can spend millions of dollars on the stuff and also on somebody to fix 'em. So it's got like, so take and when you kind of judge stuff [01:07:00] based on him, it's also, or Ben, Ben Greenfield of people like that.

It's great to get the word out there, but you gotta take it with a pound of salt too. But, um, yeah, you can get a hyperbaric without a prescription. The higher quality ones. Are gonna be expensive. Um, you usually wanna at least one with at least 1.5 ATMs in most cases. Um, so you, if you're gonna get one, you want to get one that is, that, that's quality.

Um, protocol, typical protocol, you're gonna have to do usually 10 to 20 sessions. You do one or two sessions, you're not gonna get a huge bang for the buck. You may notice something. They're great for inflammation, for sports. That's why a lot of the teams have them. Almost all of 'em have them one now. But you do want, do wanna do prolonged treatment protocols.

I mean, for an acute illness, you're doing it two to four times a week. If you're doing it more help optimization, you may want to do anywhere between 10 to 12 sessions a month. Um, but I definitely see, I mean, the studies every week are coming out for brain and inflammation and stem cell production [01:08:00] and heart health and all the, um.

In terms of the benefits of it. So there's, it's definitely there. Um, again, in major cities are very rarely available and other cities are not. Um, so I think, again, I think that it, it's something that's, that definitely almost anybody should look for availability. I think I tell people if it's not something you're gonna do regularly or the cost of anywhere between eight and $15,000 scares you off and just don't get one of your own, it's just not wor it's something that it's, it's great to have if you're gonna use it and make a, make it a part of your protocol.

But I mean, buying, you don't need to have, unless you can, you don't need to buy the 50 or a hundred thousand dollars one that he has in his home. Um, I mean.

Cody: I, I, I have a hot soak tank and I, I'm, I'm considering wanting, I wanna sell it and get a hyperbaric chamber. Uh, but there's obviously a lot that goes with that.

Uh, but, but yeah, in terms of like optimizing for longevity and [01:09:00] health, uh, I, I think there, there's probably gonna be more science that comes out that shows these benefits. So, or at least, hopefully, at least, at least hopefully it doesn't become like Amin fasting is, um, is, or, or coal plunging at least. Uh, and then just lastly on the plasma exchange, I know that's something Brian Johnson, um, himself has done as well before.

So is that something that, do you ever recommend? And So I'm pursuing like 35. All my biomarkers I have, I'm, I'm with function health that, you know, everything's like perfect, basically. But is that, is that something that somebody like me should consider like now or do or should I wait until I'm 40 or 45 before I start considering like that?

No. Or is the science just not there yet for you? No, I tell

Dr. Neil Paulvin: everybody, sorry. Um.

Cody: Oh, go ahead.

Dr. Neil Paulvin: I tell everybody if the pri if they're over even now, under 30, if they can, if they can afford to do it, they should do it. And, and if they can afford to do two to three sessions a year, did the data is just every day [01:10:00] is new importance.

It does. We think it helps. The ones in the US we think are really good at buying, getting rid of some of the toxins as well. We know the one that's in Europe, but hopefully coming over the states in the next year or two called Pheresis has been proven to get rid of toxins even better. Um, so you don't wanna be behind the curve if you can do it and afford it or not.

Needle phobic, I would be doing it at 20, 25 years old.

Cody: Hmm. But I, I don't believe that that doesn't filter out the microplastics that we assume are in the blood though. Right.

Dr. Neil Paulvin: The, the ones we have now that are people who are, who are doing the inus pheresis and, I'm sorry, the doing the plasma here in the, in the states and they have seen levels with the plastics coming down.

Um, it's, it's just not as good as the ones that are in Europe. Um, and it's also a very initial test. We don't know the exact dosing, and then we also don't know the efficacy of these initial microplastic tests. So it's, it's still kind of a catch [01:11:00] 56 that we still, everything's still kind of into infancy.

We, we kind of, it looks like it does, but if you want proven perfect data, that's gonna take a couple years to come out. So that depends again where, where your kind of, your levels are set. I.

Cody: And, and, and just as a clarity, there was the popularity in this idea of young blood, uh, many years ago. So if I'm, if I'm correct, this plasma exchange has kind of replaced that, where that you don't need to do a blood blood exchange with somebody younger.

Um, the, this kind of been replaced by this plasma exchange protocol. Is that correct? Um,

Dr. Neil Paulvin: a little, some overlap. They're not exactly the same. This plasmapheresis has been used in, in hospitals for years. Young blood was kind of, uh, an another idea. They do work. There's some, again, overlap in how they do work a little bit.

But yeah, young blood is kind of the test. The studies initial te studies were just bad on it. So people who are kind of into that have gone to all in with the plasma, um, to [01:12:00] achieve some of those things they were hoping for, for autoimmune regulation, inflammation reduction, uh, just kind of regenerating the, the cells.

So it does do some of those things. Um, so in that regard, yes.

Cody: Well, Dr. Paulvin, thank you so much for joining us today. This has been an incredibly insightful episode, and I really appreciate you sharing all of your knowledge and advice with us today. So for everyone listening, you can learn more about Dr.

Vin's work and connect with him directly on his website@drPaulvin.com. That's P-A-U-L-V-I n.com or follow him on Instagram at Dr. Paulvin. And as always, resources and everything mentioned in today's show including studies, books, supplements, and links are available in the show notes at our website@mindhack.com.

If you enjoy today's episode or found it helpful, please consider sharing it with a friend, leaving a review, or liking and subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps to get the word out. [01:13:00] Thanks again for listening. I'm Cody McLean and this is Ben Mind Hack. Until next time, keep optimizing and stay curious.